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      "body": ">\"Natural right\" refers to a conception of humans having innate right to freedom.\nI don't think we have freedom in a meaningful way. On a deserted island you'll have to work to survive. Progressives are in favor of meaningful freedom where you can do whatever you want and others have to pay the price. Conservatives are more based in reality. I think that's why people tend to be progressive when young and shielded from reality by parents but become more conservative as adults having to deal with reality.\n\n>It's pretty much impossible to define property rights well from the natural right standpoint. There are several gray areas, like air, water, pollution, light, sound and IPR. You can say that \"everybody can do whatever they want as long as they don't harm others\", but how do you define \"harm\"? It's very subjective concept that means different things to different people.\n\nChase Rachels wrote a great book on this: https://radicalcapitalist.org/2017/07/06/featured-content/\nIt first defines what can be property: that which is scarce. Which can change, so for example on earth oxygen isn't scarce and therefore not property. But on the moon it would be scarce and can therefore be property. The second component is that a human took it from nature. After that humans can trade property. Property can revert back to nature if humans abandon it. That's where there's some grey area, what does abandon mean exactly? This question will be answered through negotiations. In the same way prices are (mostly) determined now. Would you want a central controller determining what prices are or are you fine with using negotiations? People benefit enormously from cooperating with each other, so I'm not worried there will be a few outsiders unwilling to negotiate reasonably. They will simply be dissasociated from by others, which doesn't work with government in place.\nApplying that to intellectual property, copyright and patents. All of these laws protect against uses of information that don't limit or restrict the creator of this information. Therefore the information isn't scarce. Less revenue for the creator is not property yet, therefore claimed losses of revenue cannot be claimed as violations of property. And therefore all of these laws are invalid. In the case of pollution; it's fine if you pollute nature - land not owned by anyone - but if someone fences it off and manages it, it become owned by them and pollution will have to be compensated for. It's notable that the worst pollution happens in the biggest countries and there's a 2/3 correlation between economic freedom and environmental quality. I think the causal relationship here is that rich people can afford to care about and take care of their environment. But government or common ownership of land certainly hasn't helped the environment.\n\n>Then try to maximize the well-being as much as possible\nThe big problem here is of course for whom? Humans have a biological bias in favor of women. Do we give them anything they want because that produces a greater percieved well-being? I don't think this will work.",
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      "from": "steemdetective",
      "memo": "Hy @samupaha check out https://steemdetective.com",
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      "author": "steemitboard",
      "body": "Congratulations @samupaha! You received a personal award!\n\n<table><tr><td>https://steemitimages.com/70x70/http://steemitboard.com/@samupaha/birthday3.png</td><td>Happy Birthday! - You are on the Steem blockchain for 3 years!</td></tr></table>\n\n<sub>_You can view [your badges on your Steem Board](https://steemitboard.com/@samupaha) and compare to others on the [Steem Ranking](http://steemitboard.com/ranking/index.php?name=samupaha)_</sub>\n\n\n###### [Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness](https://v2.steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=steemitboard&approve=1) to get one more award and increased upvotes!",
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      "author": "grow-healthy-gp",
      "body": "So, in short, you have to have a external source in the web for pics and videos, and link from there. Thanks.",
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    {
      "author": "lukestokes",
      "body": "> You are either completely misunderstanding how EOS works, or you are willfully trying to deceive people.\n\nNeither is true. We understand how EOS works via DPoS as it has from the beginning. No one is trying to deceive anyone.\n\n> Both options are really bad from a BP which has been with EOS since the beginning.\n\nIt is our engagement from the very beginning before the mainnet launch that informs our perspective on this issue regarding ECAF's exact scope and role at this time. Many features promised by Block One were not available at launch (such as account recovery) which further informs our perspective.\n\n> You can't just call on somebody to stop obeying the constitution.\n\nNo where does this document suggest this, even though you keep bringing it up in Telegram. ECAF is empowered by Article IX to deal with \"disputes arising out of or in connection with this Constitution.\" Just as <a href=\"https://block.one/news/block-ones-proposal-for-eos-constitution-v2-0/\">Block One requested</a>, this document asks (not demands) ECAF not make rulings which the community may believe extend beyond a direct dispute about the nature of the constitution (such as changing a private key).\n\n> If there is something that you disagree with, you need to ask the community to amend the constitution.\n\nThis is exactly what we asked for here:\n\n**It is also imperative that we, as a community, institute the required referendum as soon as possible and allow EOS mainnet token holders to decide on the governance they want for the chain.**\n\n> You really can't try to pressure parties of the ecosystem to disobey constitution if you don't like certain rules.\n\nAgain, we have not asked anyone to disobey the Constitution. Please explain why you think this as it's a pretty serious accusation. No where does this post even mentioned the Constitution.\n\n> How the hell you can expect that the stability of the chain will be preserved if people should act against he constitution?\n\nWho is acting against the Constitution? As to the stability of the chain, that is currently maintained via DPoS, as it has been since the beginning.\n\n> If one part of the constitution is completely ignored, then all the other parts can be also ignored.\n\nNot according to Article XIV.\n\n> This will lead to the situation where everyone can try to do whatever they want, as long as they think won't cause them too much problems.\n\nI disagree. As evidence, the <a href=\"https://eosauthority.com/approval/view?scope=libertyblock&name=chkey2&lnc=en\">second ruling by ECAF</a> was not approved. The chain is still functioning just as it was before. BPs are held accountable by the token holders, just as before according to DPoS.\n\n> It was the constitution which does all this. ECAF is just there to make the decision over disputes arising from the constitution.\n\nIs there any limitation at all in how you view \"disputes arising from the constitution\"? Based on my conversations with ECAF, it seems nothing which in any way relates to the EOS blockchain is offlimits which would mean any and all orders from ECAF have to be approved by BPs without question. This would not longer be a DPoS system. It would be one where ECAF has the final say. Are you willing to entertain the idea that ECAF may have promised far more than it can actually deliver?\n\n> The constitution is a multiparty contract and everything that's in the constitution defines the scope of arbitration. The community has its own ruleset and it uses arbitration to get a judgement if a rule has been broken. There really shouldn't be any lack of clarity about it at this point.\n\nI have personal views (not eosDAC views) on whether or not the current interim constitution is a valid contract (<a href=\"https://steemit.com/eos/@lukestokes/let-s-make-the-eos-constitution-an-actual-contract\">you can read why I think it's not here and how we could fix it</a>). Why I don't understand is how ECAF rulings deal with broken rules or disputes. So far, it seems they are dealing with modifying a blockchain which is something that concerns many people.\n\n> ECAF will look at all cases that the community asks it to look at. Just because multiparty contract similar to EOS's constitution is not common, it doesn't mean it's somehow invalid. If you want to move certain kind of disputes out of ECAF's jurisdiction, then you need to ask the community to amend the constitution. ECAF doesn't have any power over the ruleset, it just does what the community asks it to do. It was created to serve the community.\n\nCan you clarify what constitutes a dispute? It seems anything and everything related to EOS could be considered a dispute and the EOS community will have to trust ECAF's judgement without seeing evidence or being concerned with any fees ECAF collected.\n\n> Yeah, but how well the normal procedures have been working with blockchains? Really badly, I'd say. That's why I like how EOS has taken the initiative to create something better. If the existing justice systems are really inefficient at protecting private property on the blockchain, then it makes sense for the community to protect themselves. This is achieved by including disputes about property rights under the jurisdiction of EOS base-layer arbitration.\n\nEvidence has shown this is not an effective way to protect property. Rulings can not move as fast as decentralized exchanges. Multisignature contracts and built-in permissions with time delays are a much more effective way to protect property.\n\n> Even though this is something new, I don't think that existing judicial systems will look at it as something illegal. On the contrary, my guess is that they will more likely say something like \"wow, that's a great innovation!\" and support it.\n\nI hope a ratified constitution via referendum will clarify what EOS token holders want and what role arbitration will play within this blockchain.\n\nAs always, I'm expressing my personal views in this comment and not the views of the DAC which can't be fully expressed by any individual.",
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      "body": ">They didn't replace ECAF with another system, they removed base-layer arbitration completely and created the official way to use app-level arbitration. These are two completely different things. Base-layer arbitration means the arbitration of constitutional disputes. With EOS NY's proposal, this would be in the hands of BPs.\n\nI don't agree with your logic. By removing ECAF they are replacing it with something else.\n\n>It's the community which sets the rules, not ECAF. ECAF doesn't have any say in the constitution, and it really shouldn't. That's the job for the community. ECAF will only resolve the conflicts that the community asks it to resolve. The constitution is the scope.\n\nThe EUA is the exact proposal that will hopefully remove them.\n\nIt was a mistake to install a group of under funded, inexperienced volunteers into the constitution in the first place.\n\n>BPs can do emergency actions also in the current system. They just need to file a case after that, so that ECAF can verify if the action was rightful or not.\n\nThe community will decide if BP actions are rightful or not. We don't need ECAF for that.",
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      "author": "samupaha",
      "body": "Damn, guys, this was really painful to read. You are either completely misunderstanding how EOS works, or you are willfully trying to deceive people. Both options are really bad from a BP which has been with EOS since the beginning.\n\nYou can't just call on somebody to stop obeying the constitution. If there is something that you disagree with, you need to ask the community to amend the constitution. You really can't try to pressure parties of the ecosystem to disobey constitution if you don't like certain rules.\n\nHow the hell you can expect that the stability of the chain will be preserved if people should act against he constitution? If one part of the constitution is completely ignored, then all the other parts can be also ignored. This will lead to the situation where everyone can try to do whatever they want, as long as they think won't cause them too much problems.\n\n> ECAF began with the stated aim of trying to solve a number of diverse problems. These ranged from contractual disputes, to DAO-type hacks, to theft of tokens.\n\nIt was the constitution which does all this. ECAF is just there to make the decision over disputes arising from the constitution.\n\n> However, it has become clear that several elements of this body are not fit for purpose. In particular, there is lack of clarity over the scope and intended purpose of ‘arbitration’ - and even what arbitration is.\n\nThe constitution is a multiparty contract and everything that's in the constitution defines the scope of arbitration. The community has its own ruleset and it uses arbitration to get a judgement if a rule has been broken. There really shouldn't be any lack of clarity about it at this point.\n\n> ECAF appears to be willing to look at and issue ‘orders’ to block producers about situations that fall outside the normal definition of arbitration.\n\nECAF will look at all cases that the community asks it to look at. Just because multiparty contract similar to EOS's constitution is not common, it doesn't mean it's somehow invalid. If you want to move certain kind of disputes out of ECAF's jurisdiction, then you need to ask the community to amend the constitution. ECAF doesn't have any power over the ruleset, it just does what the community asks it to do. It was created to serve the community.\n\n> But such an exception has not yet been achieved in law, so currently when ECAF issues ‘orders’ for block producers to move private property from one account to another, both ECAF and block producers are doing so outside of any legal framework. Normally a court order is required before property can be lawfully ‘restored’.\n\nYeah, but how well the normal procedures have been working with blockchains? Really badly, I'd say. That's why I like how EOS has taken the initiative to create something better. If the existing justice systems are really inefficient at protecting private property on the blockchain, then it makes sense for the community to protect themselves. This is achieved by including disputes about property rights under the jurisdiction of EOS base-layer arbitration.\n\nEven though this is something new, I don't think that existing judicial systems will look at it as something illegal. On the contrary, my guess is that they will more likely say something like \"wow, that's a great innovation!\" and support it.",
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      "body": "Really nice to see that you are moving to the right direction with your thinking! But there was still a little bit of misunderstanding in your proposal.\n\n> I like that they have removed the EOS Core Arbitration Forum (ECAF) as the sole centralized arbitrator and replaced them with a free market arbitration system.\n\nThey didn't replace ECAF with another system, they removed base-layer arbitration completely and created the official way to use app-level arbitration. These are two completely different things. Base-layer arbitration means the arbitration of constitutional disputes. With EOS NY's proposal, this would be in the hands of BPs.\n\nI see it as a step backwards. When the stakes are high, it's usually a good idea to decentralize the system and create several independent institutions to run the system. In this case, the model EOS uses resembles what countries are doing (at least some of them). They separate different powers: legislative (in EOS, voters through referendums), executive (BPs), and judicial (ECAF). With EOS NY's proposal, ECAF will be removed and its powers are given to BPs.\n\n> ECAF was conceived as an arbitration forum, yet it oversteps the remit for what arbitration is and as yet, ECAF has not declared or clearly defined a scope for its organisation.\n\nI'm not sure how ECAF could do any of this. The scope of disputes is defined by the community. It's the community which sets the rules, not ECAF. ECAF doesn't have any say in the constitution, and it really shouldn't. That's the job for the community. ECAF will only resolve the conflicts that the community asks it to resolve. The constitution is the scope.\n\nIf you don't like that ECAF is handling certain cases, you can't ask them to drop them. You need to ask the community to amend the constitution so that those cases of dispute are not possible to arise from the constitution anymore.\n\n> ECAF has also proved that it takes an incredibly long time to reach conclusions and issue orders. Whilst this is good for arbitration (we want to make sure they take adequate time to access each case), it is not a good process for carrying out actions that need to happen quickly (such as removing bad actors from the system). Block Producers are probably in a better positioned and better equipped to assess and make decisions that require swift implementation.\n\nBPs can do emergency actions also in the current system. They just need to file a case after that, so that ECAF can verify if the action was rightful or not.\n\n> If ECAF were to reduce and define their scope as an independent body that only policed and enforced against non-compliant block producers (i.e. became a completely different organisation), then I would be willing to take a look at that as a viable role for them.\n\nAgain, if you want to reduce and/or define the scope of ECAF, you can't ask ECAF to do it for itself. You need to ask it from the community, because it's the community which writes its own rules.",
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      "author": "aeondrift",
      "body": "@@ -204,16 +204,19 @@\n ecially \n+so \n at its i\n",
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      "body": "@@ -189,16 +189,45 @@\n ver time\n+ -- especially at its infancy\n .%0A%0AMy vi\n",
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      "body": "@@ -1,8 +1,207 @@\n+Yes, %22Intention of Code is Law%22 is Dan's attempt to fix the flaws of the original design, and I do agree with him. It is nature that blockchain projects experiment, improves, and evolves over time.%0A%0A\n My view \n",
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      "body": "My view on immutability is that transactions have to be immutable base on private key -- i.e. funds transferred cannot be reversed nor stopped by any other private keys.\n\nI do not understand how making the EOS ecosystem more flexible doesn't make sense, perhaps you can elaborate the reasoning behind this.",
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      "author": "samupaha",
      "body": "> The original intention of arbitration is to enforce \"Intention of Code is Law\" to enable recovery of funds due to the result of bugs resulting in the lost of funds similar to the DAO hack case on Ethereum\n\nThis is not true. \"Intention of Code is Law\" was invented by Dan Larimer after the blockchain was already launched. It wasn't included in the original designs.\n\n> Other methods of ensuring securing your funds already exist, such as multi-sig, staking and multi-permission structures, and cold-storage with hardware wallet access.\n\nYes, but this is not contrary to base-layer arbitration. We can have them all: base-layer arbitration plus all the nice security features. A blockchain which uses only some of the security features available will be always less secure than one which uses them all, including base-layer arbitration.\n\n> In my view, on the base level, transactions should be immutable. A blockchain that is not immutable is worthless — nothing more than a typical cloud database system.\n\nYes, and in EOS transactions are immutable. All transactions are immutably recorded to the blockchain: stealing tokens/accounts, ECAF's ruling and BPs enforcing it. Nobody is removing or altering any transactions in the blockchain. There are only added new transactions, and they are authorized and made in accordance to the rules of the network.\n\n> Limiting the power of BPs is extremely important, just like limiting the power of governments as well, whether or not they are being good at this point in time.\n\nThat's why we have ECAF. It helps us to separate powers. Without it, BPs would to both rulings and enforcement. That is usually very bad idea. Now we have ECAF which makes the rulings independently so it limits the powers of BPs.\n\n> My proposal would be to simply disallow all transactions from a \"protected\" account to a \"base-level\" account that cannot be subjected to arbitration.\n\nThis would create two totally different ecosystems on the blockchain. It doesn't make much sense. A better way would be to create another blockchain with different rules.",
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      "body": "Great, I translated one of them into Chinese. Hahaha",
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      "body": "Recently I wrote two articles on EOS governance works:\n[All blockchains are governed blockchains](https://blog.goodaudience.com/all-blockchains-are-governed-blockchains-2f4896bf2747)\n[How to understand dispute resolution in EOS](https://medium.com/@Samupaha/how-to-understand-dispute-resolution-in-eos-48552a6e381f)\n\nThose might be helpful for understanding better how the system is intended to work.",
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      "body": "No matter how many threats they make against ECAF it doesn't have any effect. If the case is not a dispute over certain articles in the constitution, ECAF can't do anything about it. ECAF simply doesn't have the authority to make those rulings.\n\nIf ECAF makes a ruling that's clearly outside of its jurisdiction, it will be immediately noticed and ECAF's indepencency will be seen as compromised. Until this has been dealt with, no rulings from ECAF will be taken seriously.\n\n> If ECAF/EMAC are named as the sole arbitrator on the protocol layer\n\nProtocol layer = the constitution. ECAF can't do anything about things outside of the constitution.\n\n> then they provide the access for states to make these kinds of requests.\n\nPlease, write down the whole case like you think it would go. Then you can see it is practically impossible to happen in real life.",
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